Lowering center of gravity

[BLACK 5]

Lowering the center of gravity has many benefits. Near stock handling, better off road stability, and smoother ride due to less severe link angles are naming a few.

I am trying to figure out the best way to accomplish this on my rig as it is about 3.5 inches too tall for my taste. Now don't get me wrong the thing is a dream off road but I know better handling can be had.

Here is the jeep as it sits and there are two obvious problem areas.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TUXpCELItfI/AAAAAAAABqI/ELcdj69WN6Q/s640/2011-01-30%2016.29.30.jpg

Firstly the rear axle is not centered on the wheel well. It is sitting further back than stock as is a common problem with BDS lifts. This causes the trailing edge of my tire to contact the the trailing edge of the tube fender at full stuff (Rub). At that point I am still 4 inches from the top of the wheel well. I feel that my only options without getting another set of prohibitively expensive corner guards is to lengthen the tube approximately 2 inches moving the trailing edge back 2 inches. In addition to the addition of tubing severe cutting of the inner wheel well (stock tub) needs to be done. If anyone has any advice on the best way to go about that please pipe in.

The second problem area is the front tube fenders. Even though they give several inches of up travel over stock it is not near enough given I want to lower my jeep about 3.5 inches. I feel the solution to this is to do a DIY Highline by removing 3 inches from the bottom of my hood and raising the entire fender 3 inches. This will require a bit of ingenuity but it has been done by many people and can be done with enough help and beer.

Also there is the issue of me not knowing the exact lift over stock. As I will need to get new coils I need a baseline coil length of a stock jeep (preferably a heavy one as to squat the suspension similar to mine). If someone could pull out the tape measure and give me some corner lengths I would greatly appreciate it.

That is my plan of attack to accomplish lowering my jeep. I would like some opinions on how much you guys feel I should lower it as well as advice on making it happen.

Let the discussion begin.

[ky_ace]

Not that I can offer a lot of help because my knowledge is fairly limited but Rokmen has a couple Jeeps on 40s i think that are low COG. I'm not sure what kind of top height they have. As you can see from this picture, Highlines up front and lots of clearance cut in the back fenderwells too.

http://www.christiansens.ca/images/Rokmen/rokmen7.jpg

[jbach]

why 3.5 inches lower? that will put you back close to stock from the look of it. whatever you do, you're looking at new fenders and hacking oem tin. if you're dropping it 3.5 inches, you can lose the long arm as well. is that a coil spacer in the front?

i'm going through same growing pains with my RE 5.5 longarm. i know LCG is all the rage, and there is some physics that support it. that being said, it's also a fad. you're losing ground clearance plain and simple. you can make it up with tummy tucks and the like but..... like i said, basically start over. if i was going to build an LCG rig, i would not start with a nice rubicon. i would start with a YJ or older TJ. add axles, tires, a tummy tuck, and start cutting body for clearance. cutting for clearance is the only way you're going to run that little to no lift with 35s or 37s.

[BLACK 5]

why 3.5 inches lower? that will put you back close to stock from the look of it. whatever you do, you're looking at new fenders and hacking oem tin. if you're dropping it 3.5 inches, you can lose the long arm as well. is that a coil spacer in the front?

i'm going through same growing pains with my RE 5.5 longarm. i know LCG is all the rage, and there is some physics that support it. that being said, it's also a fad. you're losing ground clearance plain and simple. you can make it up with tummy tucks and the like but..... like i said, basically start over. if i was going to build an LCG rig, i would not start with a nice rubicon. i would start with a YJ or older TJ. add axles, tires, a tummy tuck, and start cutting body for clearance. cutting for clearance is the only way you're going to run that little to no lift with 35s or 37s.


3.5 inches is where i feel that i will get the best performance while retaining the best clearance.

As far as growing pains go i have ran through the guantlet as far as rigs go. Low, tall, long, heavy and light. I know what works and what my wheeling style dictates.

You can ask any reputable off road shop or suspension company and they will till you that anything past a ~4" lift is too much, they are only offered because the market dictates it.. I dont mind cutting as much sheet metal as is required. The jeep is for off road and if it helps i will do it.

I have no idea why you would suggest starting over. All the parts on the rig will only work better once i lower the cog.

Hanna is about to start so i will continue after the movie is over.

[jbach]

how much lift over stock will you be running if you drop it 3.5 inches?


oops, just re-read your post. it would be beneficial to know where you will end up after dropping it 3.5 inches. it looks to me like you're lifted about 4 inches total right now. dropping it 3.5 inches, you'll need to lose the longarm as the links will become a clearance issue.

[BLACK 5]

I think the rig is closer to 6 inches. The 37's fill up the wheel well and make it look like less lift.

If anyone wants to pull out a tape measure and do some measuring of a stock lift rig that would be great.

[BLACK 5]

Myth solved....

I ran down the street and measured a stock TJ.

6.25 inches over stock.

I need to go down 3.5 inches.

[jbach]

are they bds coils? i think bds makes a 6.5" long arm. does it have coil spacers in their. sure looks like it from your pictures.

[Fred]

pretty simple just swap the 6" spring for 4" springs, cut out fenders as needed, drivehappy

[TROY HOGAN]

Myth solved....

I ran down the street and measured a stock TJ.

6.25 inches over stock.

I need to go down 3.5 inches.I agree with your theory. It is very easy to get past the balancing point as it is. Higher will make it even worse. Jeep looks good. Be glad see it when you get it where you want it. I have a 4 inch lift on mine as well. And like you I had rather cut sheet metal than raise it any further. You will do a lot more with the lower center of gravity.

[BLACK 5]

are they bds coils? i think bds makes a 6.5" long arm. does it have coil spacers in their. sure looks like it from your pictures.

They are 6.5" BDS coils (or so Im told). As for the spacers yes they are the 2" adjustable spacers. The previous owner installed the adjustable spacers to combat sag.

[jbach]

seems pretty simple. buy a new 2.5-3 inch short arm kit. it would be silly running a longarm on 2.5" lift coils.

if it were me, i'd lose the coil spacers and possibly buy new springs if needed to run about 4.5 inches of lift on the longarms, then start cutting for clearance if needed.

[BLACK 5]

seems pretty simple. buy a new 2.5-3 inch short arm kit. it would be silly running a longarm on 2.5" lift coils.

if it were me, i'd lose the coil spacers and possibly buy new springs if needed to run about 4.5 inches of lift on the longarms, then start cutting for clearance if needed.

Not going to happen. The brackets have been cut off, not to mention a long arms still help. Flat links = happiness.

Back on track... Im still looking for the best way to remove the metal that is in the way.

[jbach]

Not going to happen. The brackets have been cut off, not to mention a long arms still help. Flat links = happiness.

you're going to be dragging your flat links over anything and everything.


Back on track... Im still looking for the best way to remove the metal that is in the way.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/jbach/sawzall1.jpg
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/jbach/Angle-Grinder.jpg

[1fastR]

http://www.christiansens.ca/images/Rokmen/rokmen7.jpg


Yeah I think could wheel something like that. :D

More pics...

http://www.christiansens.ca/images/Rokmen/

[Fred]

seems pretty simple. buy a new 2.5-3 inch short arm kit. it would be silly running a longarm on 2.5" lift coils.

if it were me, i'd lose the coil spacers and possibly buy new springs if needed to run about 4.5 inches of lift on the longarms, then start cutting for clearance if needed.
I agree with this statement but hes not talking about going that low plus 37s wouldn't fit under that little lift. Hes talking about dropping 2.5" that would put him at 4" lift. With cutting and tube fenders the 37's would still fit.

Now there are 4" long armlifts on the market and with long arms on road performance is WAY better, but I also agree the long flat arms will create more dragging on objects offroad.

[Fred]

http://www.christiansens.ca/images/Rokmen/rokmen2.jpg
I personally think the tires are too big for this set up. It does allow ample up and down articulation but thats because the axles are wider.

[jbach]

I agree with this statement but hes not talking about going that low plus 37s wouldn't fit under that little lift. Hes talking about dropping 2.5" that would put him at 4" lift. With cutting and tube fenders the 37's would still fit.

according to his original post he wants to drop in 3.5 inches. he said he's currently at 6.25 inches over stock. that would drop him to 2.75 inches over stock. makes no sense with a long arm without doing a TON of work. if he only wanted to drop 2.5 inches he could dump those coil spacers and buy some decent springs.

OP, you gotta understand suspension is about travel and shock length - you want to get the most travel possible and run the longest shock possible. this becomes a major issue on true LCG builds with big tires and low lift. there just isn't the room for axle housing travel using stock shock mounts and suspension. thats why shock relocation is so hot...outboarded rears, longer front mounts, coil-overs, notching the frames to clear suspension links at full compression, etc. the reason you install a lift is clear all the junk required to get more travel - mainly longer shocks, and in some cases control arms, axle trusses, etc.

like i said, to do what you want, you need to completely rethink your set-up, your junk won't work unless you want to limit your uptravel to a couple of inches.

[BLACK 5]

according to his original post he wants to drop in 3.5 inches. he said he's currently at 6.25 inches over stock. that would drop him to 2.75 inches over stock. makes no sense with a long arm without doing a TON of work. if he only wanted to drop 2.5 inches he could dump those coil spacers and buy some decent springs.

OP, you gotta understand suspension is about travel and shock length - you want to get the most travel possible and run the longest shock possible. this becomes a major issue on true LCG builds with big tires and low lift. there just isn't the room for axle housing travel using stock shock mounts and suspension. thats why shock relocation is so hot...outboarded rears, longer front mounts, coil-overs, notching the frames to clear suspension links at full compression, etc. the reason you install a lift is clear all the junk required to get more travel - mainly longer shocks, and in some cases control arms, axle trusses, etc.

like i said, to do what you want, you need to completely rethink your set-up, your junk won't work unless you want to limit your uptravel to a couple of inches.

I'm going to agree to disagree on this one. I have a lot of experience with suspension systems so ill take that experience and do what works. Ever try to tune triple bypasses and coil overs on a 22" travel setup? I think I got this covered.

[skisad]

You still want to keep the same tire size? If so then to lower you will have get smaller springs, correct. And to keep the same size tires then you have to open your wheel wells. Then put in major bump stops to limit up travel. But do all that you might have to do more work on your tube fenders. I don't think you have a lot of room to work there, especially in the rear. I ran into that issue on my old jeep.

If you are looking for more stability then think about moving axles out.

[short bus]

Josh You Will Not Be Able To Cross It Up Like We Did A Few Weekends Ago If You Drop It Down. It Worked Great The Way It Is And It Never Looked Top Heavy. Hope It Work Out The Way You Want It . Also Tell That Boy Of Yours I Said Hi.

[minesweaper]

seems you are pretty experianced in this issue....i dont think anyone is trying to insult your ideas just remind you of things you have not thought of.

One thing I have noticed is with all the popular LCOG builds they triangulated the rear at least. Reason is, look at your lower rear arms. Dropping the rig too far will make the arms hit the frame before you get to full stuff. This is something that I did so I know it can happen. By having a triangulated rear this will fix that.

if a 2 or 3 inch long arm worked well there would be more of them on the market. wheather anyone wants to admit it or not, LCOG builds are super popular right now so there is a need and ability for big manufactures to build them, its just not real easy.

Good luck with this and i hope you get it just the way you want it.

[Fred]

I think all JBach is trying to say and Minesweeper kinda hit on in a round about way is you are still dealing with a bolt on suspension, and Bolt on Long arms weren't designed for use with small lifts.

I will repeat what everyone else said do what you want it's your jeep, but you did ask them for opinions and advise and your basicly throwing what everyone's saying away.

[1fastR]

Probably already seen them, but plenty of ideas for you in these threads.



http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f59/35s-larger-3-less-lcg-jeeps-685821/

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/lcg-low-center-of-gravity-22073.html

http://forums.jpmagazine.com/70/7588428/jeep-suspension/lcg-front-and-rear-shock-relocation/index.html

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/flex-shootout-lgc-vs-regular-lift-732140/

[BLACK 5]

Probably already seen them, but plenty of ideas for you in these threads.



http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f59/35s-larger-3-less-lcg-jeeps-685821/

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/lcg-low-center-of-gravity-22073.html

http://forums.jpmagazine.com/70/7588428/jeep-suspension/lcg-front-and-rear-shock-relocation/index.html

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/flex-shootout-lgc-vs-regular-lift-732140/

I have already seen most of those but I can always learn more, thanks.

I did it and no issues. I have the belly up skid on there and I still have more clearance than the stock skid when it was lifted (the rubicon skid is horrible).

I flexed out the suspension and the flex is unaffected. The only issue is the rear coils get pretty loose under full droop. That should change once I get new coils but for now it did a great job of proving the concept.

Handling is night and day. On road it hugs the curves like a hmmwv or any other wide track vehicle. Sidehill stability is amazing and I feel much more planted.

To make sure that there would be no issues we flexed it out without coils and shocks at full droop and full bump articulating in every way we could think of.

Here are some pictures of it complete.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaZGaT1oFoI/AAAAAAAABuU/EhC_IWPJy-A/s640/2011-04-13%2019.36.51.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaZKy6j8deI/AAAAAAAABu8/BUIRuv7w4Wo/s640/2011-04-13%2019.36.27.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaZLOYWdRMI/AAAAAAAABvI/7EhpRhV2XTg/s640/2011-04-13%2019.36.17.jpg

All the work was done by Sin City Customs in Clarksville. They do a great job and are willing to tackle any project. They do towing, lift kits, painting, and everything in between. Call them at (pm me for number)573 837 3232 if you need work done on your rigs. There hours are 0900-2300.

[minesweaper]

11 at night, every night? great hours....where is it? home business? looks like your stuff is limited but the droop looks like it is great. how does the lower arm do under full stuff? hit frame or does bump stop stop it first?

[minesweaper]

what all did they do other than change springs?

[BLACK 5]

11 at night, every night? great hours....where is it? home business? looks like your stuff is limited but the droop looks like it is great. how does the lower arm do under full stuff? hit frame or does bump stop stop it first?

They are an up and coming shop trying to make it work hence the long hours. They are on New Providence Rd right before you go down the hill to riverside behind the fish market.

The up travel is slightly less however I hit some train tracks at 50 and it did not bottom out.

The lower rear arms get close to the brake lines on the body however it bumps out a half inch short. On the front the tie rod and drag link get close but once we rotated the adjustment clamps flat there are no issues I can tell.

I will be getting an alignment tomorrow to center the axles again. Due to dropping the suspension the axles followed the arc of the panhard bars and shifted both axles slightly.

[BLACK 5]

They installed and modified the skid plates so they would clear the long arm kit, clearanced the floor to clear the t-case, put new fluids in the transmission and tcase, and modified my shifter to clear the dash.

[jbach]

what springs did they install? how much longer bumpstops?

[minesweaper]

i think they are the in the same building that High Times offroad shop used to be in.

[BLACK 5]

They are stock springs off of a TJ. The bumps were not moved.

[BLACK 5]

i think they are the in the same building that High Times offroad shop used to be in.


They are in a different building about 1/8th of a mile further down the road.

[Fred]

They used factory springs anddidn't change to longer bumpstops? You are going to have issues offroad. You onlu have room for about 2" of up travel, without installing longer bumpstops your gonna hit that in a heartbeat.

[Fred]

i think they are the in the same building that High Times offroad shop used to be in.
Theres a name I haven't heard in a while. God what a joke of a shop they were, did more cars on 24" rims than trucks or 4x4's. I hope these guys work out we have yet to have a good reputable shop in Clarksville

[BLACK 5]

They used factory springs anddidn't change to longer bumpstops? You are going to have issues offroad. You onlu have room for about 2" of up travel, without installing longer bumpstops your gonna hit that in a heartbeat.

I am still using the stock shocks so the bump zone stays the same.

[minesweaper]

i have to say im surprised you know where high times was. that was years ago. are they affiliated? so its at stock lift?

[minesweaper]

the raised fenders should help the bumpstop issues

[BLACK 5]

i have to say im surprised you know where high times was. that was years ago. are they affiliated? so its at stock lift?

They are not affiliated as far as I know. The co-owner is a team guy in 3rd bat.

I would guess it is 2" over stock.

the raised fenders should help the bumpstop issues

What he said ^^^

[jbach]

you said you were at 6.25 inches over stock. wanted to drop it 3.5 inches. and now you're on stock springs with no body/fender clearance modifications? i am confused. i would love to see a picture of you at full stuff.

[Fred]

They are not affiliated as far as I know. The co-owner is a team guy in 3rd bat.

I would guess it is 2" over stock.



What he said ^^^
Whats the co-owners, and owners names?

[BLACK 5]

you said you were at 6.25 inches over stock. wanted to drop it 3.5 inches. and now you're on stock springs with no body/fender clearance modifications? i am confused. i would love to see a picture of you at full stuff.

I will get some pics tomorrow.

[BLACK 5]

Whats the co-owners, and owners names?

Jimmy and Lesley.

[BLACK 5]

They used factory springs anddidn't change to longer bumpstops? You are going to have issues offroad. You onlu have room for about 2" of up travel, without installing longer bumpstops your gonna hit that in a heartbeat.

There is 5.5 inches of room between the front tire and front fender.

[minesweaper]

looks like the rear has about 2.5 in of stuff before it hits the rear portion of the fender. for all the lost amount of stuff or up travel then you must combat that with more droop. if you can do that then great.
reason being: if your rear drivers tire is on a rock, you want the tub of the jeep as flat as possible, that means the tub will be on the rock and the passenger side tire will need to droop all the further.
again, if you do all that then awesome, should work great, if not, you will end up greasy side up.

[BLACK 5]

looks like the rear has about 2.5 in of stuff before it hits the rear portion of the fender. for all the lost amount of stuff or up travel then you must combat that with more droop. if you can do that then great.
reason being: if your rear drivers tire is on a rock, you want the tub of the jeep as flat as possible, that means the tub will be on the rock and the passenger side tire will need to droop all the further.
again, if you do all that then awesome, should work great, if not, you will end up greasy side up.

The amount of uptravel on the rear is deceptive... Its about 5 inches or so... I was gonna get a flex pic today but ran out of time. Ill get the pic and you will see what I am talking about it.

[BLACK 5]

Here are some pics. Take notice of the side hill stability.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeDK5rnNpI/AAAAAAAABvY/HECaj_3fcWw/s640/2011-04-14%2018.18.58.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeDjM58P4I/AAAAAAAABvk/3CuyAufz9VM/s640/2011-04-14%2018.15.25.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeDm5Lfg2I/AAAAAAAABvo/WxXBs1dF2B0/s640/2011-04-14%2018.15.15.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeD7A7ScsI/AAAAAAAABvs/V0_fyrRb8rM/s640/2011-04-14%2018.14.56.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeEEW7xwaI/AAAAAAAABvw/y4gY_mM4k18/s640/2011-04-14%2018.16.40.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeEK7gOjMI/AAAAAAAABv4/4K20Y8dIBao/s640/2011-04-14%2018.16.29.jpg

[Fred]

your fender wells are limiting the upward articualtion rather than bump stops. I personally think the tire size is too big for the new build, but to each his own.

[Bluegill]

I like it! But I'd go with front highline fenders & bigger rear fender openings.

[BLACK 5]

I like it! But I'd go with front highline fenders & bigger rear fender openings.

That is the plan.

[BLACK 5]

your fender wells are limiting the upward articualtion rather than bump stops. I personally think the tire size is too big for the new build, but to each his own.

Im not sure why everyone is sharp-shooting the build... I have as much flex as before, better side hill stability, equal clearance with the belly up skid, and everything else seems to be in order.

Once I do the high line on the front and maybe a bit of trimming on the rear im golden.

[d-rockXJ]

Low COG is the way to go!!! You are doing the build correctly. Look at the guys on Pirate the spend tons of money on their rigs and you will see that they build low COG all the time. Love your rubi and the build! Keep up the good work.

[jeep guy]

I like the build and idea behind it you are on the right track and I thnk 2.5 in with a long arm with highlines is the way to build a tj or any other rig

[Fred]

Im not sure why everyone is sharp-shooting the build... I have as much flex as before, better side hill stability, equal clearance with the belly up skid, and everything else seems to be in order.

Once I do the high line on the front and maybe a bit of trimming on the rear im golden.
Not trouble shooting just making my obervations. I agree side stability will be way better, and road manners will be way better, I do not see how losing 4+" of tire clearance you will have the same ammount of flex and equal clearance. Once again its yours enjoy it.

[BLACK 5]

Not trouble shooting just making my obervations. I agree side stability will be way better, and road manners will be way better, I do not see how losing 4+" of tire clearance you will have the same ammount of flex and equal clearance. Once again its yours enjoy it.

I use that ditch as a benchmark and normally the tire gets a bit light at full flex in that ditch. When I lowered it it did the same thing, it just got a bit light and did not lift, I even followed my tire tracks from a few days before.

That's why I said flex is unaffected.

[Bluegill]

Im not sure why everyone is sharp-shooting the build...
Kind of boils down to "conventional wisdom", which says that more lift is needed for big tires. Personally I'm a big fan of low COG setups, my TJ has surprised many who didn't think it would work.

Wish I could remember his name so I can link a video ... but anyway the owner of Clemson4WD built a TJ with ZERO lift running 40's ... a buddy at school showed me pics of it in their shop (his LJ buggy is being finished up there) ... he did a comp cut in the rear, highlines & stretched both ends ... there are videos somewhere on youtube from the EJS trial run at Moab, it did great.

[minesweaper]

sorry if it seems like im sharp shooting, just asking questions. looks like it works just fine. i think they are going to start selling lcog lifts, look at all of them on pirate and other forums.

one thing i noticed is it seems like your tire is into the fender, is the bumpstops touching in the rear? over all i like the build, looks good.

[jbach]

Im not sure why everyone is sharp-shooting the build... I have as much flex as before, better side hill stability, equal clearance with the belly up skid, and everything else seems to be in order.

Once I do the high line on the front and maybe a bit of trimming on the rear im golden.

i'm not knocking your build. i'm looking for good solid information as i'm looking to lower mine as well, but keep nearly the same geometry and functionality as far as compression and droop. according to the information you provided, you dropped your rig to stock height. it was at 6.25 or 6.5 inches of lift between the lift and coil spacers. you are now on stock tj coils which would mean a drop of 6.25 to 6.5 inches, right?. my very basic addition and subtraction skills tell me there is no way possible to maintain what you had compared to this set-up. you have less suspension travel, don't tell us that nothing has changed. your pictures clearly tell the story that you're now using your fenders as bumpstops. you now have less articulation than a stock tj due to your fenders not letting your springs fully compress. you are planning on highlining and opening up your rear fender wells so that will help. after that you're going to need shorter shocks to prevent them from bottoming out before your coils fully compress. i'd like to drop my rig a bit as well, but not at the expense of 6.5 inches of uptravel. by the way, i absolutely love the looks of the rig, just question some of the functionality without making some additional changes. keeping a rig low is easy. keeping it low with articulation is not easy or cheap.

[Fred]

I was contemplating dropping my XJ from 6.5" to 4" but I was also gonna drop to 34's (or 33's) which meant new shocks, adjusting trackbar, adjusting Control Arm Lengths on my LAs, possaibly meant drive shaft adjustments, all for a gain of less weight at the wheels, and possibly better on road manners, my stability is fine for me, I don't even have sway bars, rear has been gone for many years and I cut the front off last year. So these slight benifit gains over the sacrifice of tire size, clearance, and monetary expenses I decided to stay with my 35's. When I had my TJ I had 6" lift on it with 33's, I could have EASILY run 37's but thats too much tire for a D30, even the Super 30 I had. I had a 4" lift with 2" Spacers, I actually removed the 2" spacers from the rear, and removed the factory spring "bushing" from the front moving it to the rear. I had 4" extended bump stops all the way around and still stuffed into my fenders but my droop was so extreme I actually flexed out of my springs before I added spring retainers. My point was same as yours I don't understand how they could go to a stock spring and stock bump stops, and your fender is limiting the tires and you they can claim its no change from the lift articulation. If they somehow did this wow they are great but I don't see nor understand how this is possible.

i'm not knocking your build. i'm looking for good solid information as i'm looking to lower mine as well, but keep nearly the same geometry and functionality as far as compression and droop. according to the information you provided, you dropped your rig to stock height. it was at 6.25 or 6.5 inches of lift between the lift and coil spacers. you are now on stock tj coils which would mean a drop of 6.25 to 6.5 inches, right?. my very basic addition and subtraction skills tell me there is no way possible to maintain what you had compared to this set-up. you have less suspension travel, don't tell us that nothing has changed. your pictures clearly tell the story that you're now using your fenders as bumpstops. you now have less articulation than a stock tj due to your fenders not letting your springs fully compress. you are planning on highlining and opening up your rear fender wells so that will help. after that you're going to need shorter shocks to prevent them from bottoming out before your coils fully compress. i'd like to drop my rig a bit as well, but not at the expense of 6.5 inches of uptravel. by the way, i absolutely love the looks of the rig, just question some of the functionality without making some additional changes. keeping a rig low is easy. keeping it low with articulation is not easy or cheap.

[Turfzilla]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeD7A7ScsI/AAAAAAAABvs/V0_fyrRb8rM/s640/2011-04-14%2018.14.56.jpg




I like the stance that you have now.

I would worry about the front in an off-road situation. Turn there steering wheel full lock and stuff the tire. I bet you would have 0 up travel. Looks like it would be into the back of the fender well really easy.

Are those Smitty Bilt tube flares in the back?

[minesweaper]

Kevin, you make a good point, where he has tube fenders im sure the tire would not damage them, when that tire is stuffed into it and you try and turn, you would have issues i would guess.

[BLACK 5]

i'm not knocking your build. i'm looking for good solid information as i'm looking to lower mine as well, but keep nearly the same geometry and functionality as far as compression and droop. according to the information you provided, you dropped your rig to stock height. it was at 6.25 or 6.5 inches of lift between the lift and coil spacers. you are now on stock tj coils which would mean a drop of 6.25 to 6.5 inches, right?. my very basic addition and subtraction skills tell me there is no way possible to maintain what you had compared to this set-up. you have less suspension travel, don't tell us that nothing has changed. your pictures clearly tell the story that you're now using your fenders as bumpstops. you now have less articulation than a stock tj due to your fenders not letting your springs fully compress. you are planning on highlining and opening up your rear fender wells so that will help. after that you're going to need shorter shocks to prevent them from bottoming out before your coils fully compress. i'd like to drop my rig a bit as well, but not at the expense of 6.5 inches of uptravel. by the way, i absolutely love the looks of the rig, just question some of the functionality without making some additional changes. keeping a rig low is easy. keeping it low with articulation is not easy or cheap.


The tires were hitting the fenders before I dropped it.

Here is a before pic on the same ditch.

Before

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TajyHReltJI/AAAAAAAABwE/7oXLh7zCVlU/s640/2011-04-08%2017.41.06.jpg

After

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_847r7SuvaCw/TaeD7A7ScsI/AAAAAAAABvs/V0_fyrRb8rM/s640/2011-04-14%2018.14.56.jpg

As you can see there is no change in articulation. This is a side by side before and after. Yes I have less up travel but also more down travel.

I would like to see a stock tj flex that good however it is not in the cards due to lack of a long arm.

[Fred]

The reason the tires stuffed and still stuff into fender wells is not enough Bump Stop, thats what they are there for

[BLACK 5]

Bumpstops are there for bump travel not articulation travel, at least that is the train of thought in the circles I run in. If I were to jump the jeep or hit a big G-out the bumpstops would hit before the fenders. The only reason that they are hitting the fender is because a solid axle acts as a fulcrum.

Here are other rigs that contact the fenders. Its not out of the ordinary or considered bad by most hardcore wheelers.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/915981/Har%201.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=554866&stc=1&d=1287718631

http://lsjc.org/board/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=2644

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=441219&stc=1&d=1241710415

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/hedmisten/DSCF2069.jpg

[d-rockXJ]

I have my bump stops in the front set to stop my tire about 1/2" before it hits my fender so there is no real loss of up travel. I have cut front fenders so... tires at full stuff+cut fender=bad news. If I were running tube fenders I would not stress about contact.

[jeremy42071]

i need to get some bump stops and figure out where to adjust them and what not to as i have the cut fenders and they will eat a tire, but as derek said if i had tubes i would let it eat. Maybe just stop it a little before it hits

[Turfzilla]

Rubbing in the back is a non isssue as far as I am concerned.

It looks like you could have steering issues off road if the tire is stuffed while your wheel is turned. It's not going to hurt anything, just make steering difficult.

I only have 35's with 4" of lift and I can stuff my tire into the back of the fender well every once and a while. Enough that i would love to high - line mine.

[short bus]

hey josh it looks good both ways ,but will it walk threw the same washed out ditch that i spotted you threw at the bay a few weekend ago?

[minesweaper]

So I went by chef mart for some stuff for the business and to the fish market for dinner and guess what I saw? Your jeep looks great. If it handles the way it looks you will love it. the pics dont do it justice, looks like more lift than non in person. I still say a tire in the fender makes turning hard if not impossible. bump stops that stop it 1/2" from touching would work better. but like i said, i stopped by and it looks great.


what is sin city guys gonna do with all the cars there? they plan to fix it up? i saw a lifted chevy and your jeep but no other offroad rigs.