The Dreaded Death Wobble!

[Redjk07]

I am dealing with what they call the death wobble on my 07 JK, it has a 3.5 inch Rock Krawler lift on it, and when I installed the lift I ask the guys at Rock Krawler if I needed to install the steering kit too along with a couple of other companies about installing a steering kit to and everyone said I shouldn't have too! BUT now when I called Rock Krawler back they said this is the only way to get rid of it. It does not do it all the time just every now and then at around 35 to 40 miles and hour! I am scared to let my wife drive it in fear she won't know what to do when or if it happens to her. Any body else have idea of a inexpensive fix. Because if I install the high steer kit I might as well install a different Stabilzer too! :confused:

[jeremy42071]

Make sure your track bar is good and tight. Idk anything about new JKs but ive had it on my tj and my xj from wore out bushings on track bar. Just a thought!! Hope you can fix it!!

[Jeeper4life]

There are two main causes for Death Wobble.

1) your track bar is not in line with the steering arms / or loose.

2) when you lifted the Jeep you didn't reset the Caster. the caster plays a big part in the creation of death wobble.

one of the best examples of caster causing death wobble is looking at a shopping cart wheels the axis from the upper joint and the lower joint is not in the right place. the best way to change this on a Jeep is to get adjustable Control arms Upper and Lower is best and take it to an Alignment shop and tell them to adjust the caster.

You can get a track bar relocation bracket. this will help keep the track bar in the correct position.

Some of the other uncommon issues are bad steering components and bad wheel bearings or bad ball joints. These are not common causes to death wobble but combined they can be bad. I would check all before you buy anything.

Edit: There is another issue that can cause some bad wobble but it only happens when you hit the brakes. if your Front rotors are warped badly when you hit your brakes your steering wheel will shake violently. I just fixed that on my wife's Nissan.

[Jeeper4life]

I just looked at the lift and I noticed that it doesn't come with any new control arms. it is just springs and sway bar discos. it does however come with the relocation bracket so my bet is the caster is off. and you might want to get it checked some Jeeps have a camper bolt on the upper control arm. however you may still need to replace the control arms.

In my opinion if you go over 2in lift you NEED to replace the Lowers at least but that is opinion. If you replace all 4 you can adjust them until your caster is back to spec. very easily.

here is the link to the Control arms.

Upper (http://shoplive.rompalicious.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8350)

Lower (http://shoplive.rompalicious.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8382)

[Redjk07]

I just looked at the lift and I noticed that it doesn't come with any new control arms. it is just springs and sway bar discos. it does however come with the relocation bracket so my bet is the caster is off. and you might want to get it checked some Jeeps have a camper bolt on the upper control arm. however you may still need to replace the control arms.

In my opinion if you go over 2in lift you NEED to replace the Lowers at least but that is opinion. If you replace all 4 you can adjust them until your caster is back to spec. very easily.

here is the link to the Control arms.

Upper (http://shoplive.rompalicious.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8350)



Lower (http://shoplive.rompalicious.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8382)



The kit came with all new upper and lower control arms because it was the flex kit, I took it to the alignment shop and they are a very good shop that know what they are doing, and showed me the read out. The only thing he told me was I needed to install an offset ball joint to get everything exact. I installed the kit myself and this is not my first rodeo with lift kits but a first with a JK. I own my own auto body shop, and work on these every day. The ball joints are all tight the bushings are good. There is nothing wrong with the brakes. So that is why I am alittle confused on why this is happening, like I said it does not do it all the time it only does few and far between, I travel the same road back and forth everyday and can hit the same bumps one day and it not do it but the next day it will do it. So thats why I was wondering if any other JK owners have had this problem and what they have done about it. I have been on JK owners and have not heard a straight answer yet. So that is why I am still looking

[tucker444]

i'm not sure about jks, but i know that on my xj, i had new tires and a lift put on all at the same time. Got it home , unloaded and went for a test drive. It done the death wobble. It would do it at about 25 or 30 miles and hour. I couldn't figure it out, everything seemed to be alright. Then i happened to check my tire pressure and it was at 50 psi from the tire store, i dropped the psi down and it hasn't done the death wobble since then. That was about 5 months ago.

[jgarner74]

Could be 2-3 things you need to check.

1. When the lift was installed and the control were put on were they installed with the weight of the Jeep on the tires. Basicly you want to install them loose and then apply the weight of the Jeep and then snug the control arms up. You could have your bushings in a bind. You can loosen all them, shake the Jeep from side to side and re-tightned.

2. Check your track bar mounting locations. The factory brackets are known to be weak and they will oval out very easily. The best way to check is to completely removed and see if you see any signs of side to side movement on the mounting bracket. If so you need a re-enforcement bracket. PM and I can tell you a few or a quick and cheap fix.

3. Are you control arms adjustable that came with the kit. At minumum you need upper adjustable to set your caster. You need to be around 6 degrees.

If you have checked your ball joints and they are tight it should OK, however the JK's are also known for wearing ball joints out when you go with a larger tire. I have fought it on mine a couple times and I should be a able to put you on it fairly quick.

[Jeepster06]

I feel your pain, although mine is a TJ.

[hylyf]

I've had death wobble rear its ugly head once. BobA was right behind me on the trace at LBL. It was very disturbing. There is no mistaking it once you've had it.

I never had death wobble again. That was a couple years ago but I still get leery cruising around 40 mph. I never found the problem but it never happened again that I remember. We told ourselves there must have been mud built up in a wheel that day.

TC

[TROY HOGAN]

I am going to say caster adjustment needed.

Need to rock it back. Lengthen the lower controls arm and or shorten the uppers. As jgarner 74 said 6 degrees maybe even 7. My TJ has (212 k) with rough country 4 inch lift non-adjustable lower control arms. I still have all factory tie rods, ball joints, track bar and bushings, upper control arms and bushings, steering arm. I am running 33x13.50 Bias Ply TSL LTB Supper Swampers that ride like square blocks that are 75% worn out and have not been balanced since I put them on the jeep. I do not have death wobble and should if anybody would. I did self alignment when I did the install. I made sure my cambolt for my caster was turned so my caster would rock back as far as it would go ( high side of cambolt turned toward the front of the jeep). Have had no problems with death wobble. But I am expecting to when all these factory components get a few more miles on it. I bought my jeep new I have put all the miles on it.

[Jeeper4life]

I took it to the alignment shop and they are a very good shop that know what they are doing, and showed me the read out. The only thing he told me was I needed to install an offset ball joint to get everything exact. this is not my first rodeo with lift kits but a first with a JK.

I understand that you have worked on Jeeps and other vehicles, and messed with multiple lift kits. I have done allignments for a living and still do them on military vehicles. I have found that 90% of the Shops out there that sell you a 4 wheel Alignment will only give you a Toe Adjustment without charging you extra to pull off the Control Arms and Spin the end to adjust them.

[Redjk07]

I understand that you have worked on Jeeps and other vehicles, and messed with multiple lift kits. I have done allignments for a living and still do them on military vehicles. I have found that 90% of the Shops out there that sell you a 4 wheel Alignment will only give you a Toe Adjustment without charging you extra to pull off the Control Arms and Spin the end to adjust them.

I appreciate the information, I was not trying to be a jerk about what I replied, so I hope you did not take it that way, But the alignment shop told me that the Drivers side lower ball joint needed to be replaced, not because it was wore out, but it did not completly get into specs! He told me that I needed to put an offset one in to completly get it right! He also told me that it probably came out like that from the factory as well. The one thing that I noticed in the last month is that when I changed the oil in it I rotated the tires and checked the tire pressure and the tire pressure was alittle lower than it should have been, and since then I don't think it has done it. So I have even seen on another site that someone else did that and the problem went away, it might have even been this site! I just don't really want to throw $500 at it right now, I would rather get a winch! or snorkle!

[Jeepster06]

Solving death wobble is a crap shoot unless you just performed a mod which caused it.

I have fought and to some point still fight death wobble in mine. So far so good after I spent about 2k rebuilding almost my entire front end.

Basically, anything connected to your front differential can cause it. I hope yours is fixed. Its a frustrating problem to have.

[Redjk07]

Solving death wobble is a crap shoot unless you just performed a mod which caused it.

I have fought and to some point still fight death wobble in mine. So far so good after I spent about 2k rebuilding almost my entire front end.

Basically, anything connected to your front differential can cause it. I hope yours is fixed. Its a frustrating problem to have.

So do tell what all did you do? to the front end? to spend that kind of money? and did it solve the problem?

[YJason]

Solving death wobble is a crap shoot


Its more like trying to figure out why your wife is mad at you. You can keep buying stuff for her and it might help, but until you figure exactly what's making her mad your just S O L. :p ;) :D :)

[TinTennessee]

I'm not saying its not death wobble. Mine used to shake like crazy around 40-48 mph. I had the 2 front tires rebalanced and it went away. Just a thought. A cheap one at that only cost me 20 some odd bucks for it.

[jgarner74]

When you stated that they said it was out of spec, what was actually out of spec? Maybe you said that that earlier but I did not see it. I had a really good shop try to sell me offset ball joints because my camber was off by one degree on each side. Sorry, but I can live with that. There is no need to replace a ball joint if it is not worn out. If something is out of spec that bad you could have bent an axle tube or maybe a "C".

Have you taken off your steering stablizer and checked to make sure it was still good? Has it been leaking any fluid or took any hard hits?

Another thing to try is have someone sit in the jeep with it NOT running and move the steering wheel back and forth. Put you hands on everything and see if you feel any movement that should not be present.

[Jeepster06]

So do tell what all did you do? to the front end? to spend that kind of money? and did it solve the problem?


Biggest expense were my tires. They were pitted and shot. Upgraded to 35".

1. Replaced bad bearing assembly
2. Replaced tie rod and drag link with Rustys knuckle to knuckle conversion.
3. Replaced track bar.
4. Replaced warn lower control arm bushing
5. New steering stabilizer.
6. 2 Alignments
7. Road force tire balancing
8. Ball joints.

The ball joints finally sitffened the front end up enough that it seemed to solve my issue for about 3 months.

I am starting to get the shimmy in my front end again at around 55 mph. I have just not had the time lately to get under it and work on it. Soon as I get some time I plan to tear into it again. I still think my problem lies in my track bar.

All my issues started when I did my belly up, mml, and body lift. Started when I would hit a bump. Figured my steering geometry was out due to the extra 1" of lift giving my 4.5" of total lift with a stock pitman arm. Added a dropped pitman arm and replaced the track bar with an adjustable. That made my problem worse. Put a stock pitman arm back on and it helped a little. This is where I started digging in and replacing things which brings me to where I am today.

I have talked to MOAB offroad and they said the next step would be to replace my power steering box which has a tendency to go bad on 2003-2006 TJ's as it is a lesser version than on the earlier TJ's.

[Redjk07]

When you stated that they said it was out of spec, what was actually out of spec? Maybe you said that that earlier but I did not see it. I had a really good shop try to sell me offset ball joints because my camber was off by one degree on each side. Sorry, but I can live with that. There is no need to replace a ball joint if it is not worn out. If something is out of spec that bad you could have bent an axle tube or maybe a "C".

Have you taken off your steering stablizer and checked to make sure it was still good? Has it been leaking any fluid or took any hard hits?

Another thing to try is have someone sit in the jeep with it NOT running and move the steering wheel back and forth. Put you hands on everything and see if you feel any movement that should not be present.
The camber was only off by 1 and they even told me it was nothing really to worry about, but I thought if I was going to put a high steering kit on from Rock Krawler and move the steering stabilizer up with a fox or even a blistein, go ahead and replace them with some off set ones but the only ones I can find are Moog and I was really wanting some heavy duty ones. But I can not find any off set ones!

[FranksRig]

I'll go along with jgarner74 on this one! I had DW real bad for about a month. Started around 35-40 mph and if ya hit a bump in the road at that speed, all heck broke loose!!!! the front components felt tight during inspection and i did not find the problem till i had the front on jack stands and was moving the drivers front tire and noticed the track bar stud was loose(just a little!)at the frame. tightend that up good and have not had a problem since. also i had the weight taken off the outside of the wheels and stickyweights put in the middle of the wheel. Tires are so wide that your really only balancing the inside or out side of the tire. hope that helps!

[TGR 96]

Another thing to try is have someone sit in the jeep with it NOT running and move the steering wheel back and forth. Put you hands on everything and see if you feel any movement that should not be present.

I just had to chime in on this one...

I also feel your pain, as I too have suffered the type of terror-inducing DW that comes form hitting a bump in the road at hwy speeds, you know the kind that makes you have to pull over on the side of the road, get out of the Jeep, and walk around for a few minutes to shake it off. And you are scared to death to put the thing in forward motion again. I must admit, even though I cured my DW a while back, I still hold my breath when I see any road surface inconsistencies coming up when driving.

I have a TJ, so I must admit, that I don't know much about JKs, but the suspension set up seems to be pretty simliar.

Don't do what I did, which was throw money at it until the DW stops! New JKS adjustable track bar, axle shafts/ujoints (admittedly, an excuse for an upgrade), new TRE bushings, new hubs (unit bearings), and eventually, to correct some control arm angles, a long arm lift kit (dang good excuse for an upgrade! :D ), my DW has stopped for the moment.

But first, make sure that everything is super tight in the front end. That is a free potential fix. I did what jgarner74 suggested, except that I had the engine running, so I am not sure if that matters. I had my wife turned the steering wheel (I don't think she could have turned the 35" MTZs with no power assist ;) )while I observed what was moving around. I think the cause of my DW was a combination of a loose track bar mounting bolt at the axle, worn out unit bearings, and loose tie rod ends, where the TRE bolts to the knuckle.

Here is one of many DW cure threads from another Jeep forum:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/death-wobble-cured-124861/

You may want to go to any one of the JK forums and search for "death wobble," and I am sure that you will find a plethora of information on you specific vehilce.

Good luck!

[jgarner74]

The camber was only off by 1 and they even told me it was nothing really to worry about, but I thought if I was going to put a high steering kit on from Rock Krawler and move the steering stabilizer up with a fox or even a blistein, go ahead and replace them with some off set ones but the only ones I can find are Moog and I was really wanting some heavy duty ones. But I can not find any off set ones!

One degree of camber is not going to hurt anything at all, certainly not the amount of money you are going to spend on a offset ball joint. They are pricey.

What degree is your caster currently at?

Did you check and double check the track bar mounting location and the drag link to make sure everything was OK?

[WestKySahara]

I have the same jeep (07 JK) 3 1/2" Rock Krawler lift, 35s, No DW but what I call "Flighty" wants to go any direction but straight. might pull to the left or right at any time????????:confused:

[Redjk07]

I have not had it in awhile, the one thing I noticed was the air pressure in my tires where lower, I don't know if that did any good or not but it has seemed to help. Mine does not wander though.

[ky_ace]

WKY, Check the steering stabilizer. I'm not sure what others have suggested or what your mileage is, but it only makes sense to me that with larger tires, a stronger (newer) stabilizer would help.

[WestKySahara]

Yeah, it's the stock one, but it only has 36,000 on it.
I'm thinking about an (actual alignment) since after I installed my lift I just did a "string & tape measure" job myself.:D But since it pulls in both directions, your guess makes more since.:confused:

I missed the #ed roads last Sat. :( you going again soon? It's going to be too cold this weekend.

[ky_ace]

an alignment is never a bad idea. I had DW on my TJ and after R/B and alignment it went away 90% and when i got new tires it went away completely. I determined a lot of mine was due to the PO not having the "key" to the locking lugnuts so he put 8k miles on the tires w/out being R/B. (I drove an 18mm 12-pt socket on them and removed them)

Dont forget to come up Sat night if you're free and interested. 6pm @ Heartland Worship Center.

[Big BlackXJ]

i had d/w on my cherokee and tried everything almost a whole new front end and it was my tires the whole time got new tsl and never wobbled again i was amazed

[yellowx]

i have a worn out track bar end and i think its the cause of mine after wheeling @ witc sat and sun. you can shake it and the stud flops back and forth i will also check the mount to see if to is ovaled out

[jgarner74]

Yeah, it's the stock one, but it only has 36,000 on it.
I'm thinking about an (actual alignment) since after I installed my lift I just did a "string & tape measure" job myself.:D But since it pulls in both directions, your guess makes more since.:confused:

I missed the #ed roads last Sat. :( you going again soon? It's going to be too cold this weekend.


You problem almost sounds like a caster issue that is making it wander. Do you know what you are set at?

[WestKySahara]

I have no idea. how do you adjust caster if your lift didn't come with adjustable control arms?:confused: Buy some?:rolleyes:

[Jeepster06]

Some lifts come with cam bolts that will allow you to adjust caster a couple of degrees.

[jgarner74]

I have no idea. how do you adjust caster if your lift didn't come with adjustable control arms?:confused: Buy some?:rolleyes:


Best option would be upper or lower front adjustable arms. I have personally never used the cam bolts, so I can't give you any feedback on those. I have used Currie and Poly Performance on mine and I prefer the Poly. They allow you to install them and adjust the length without removing one end adjusting the length. They are very well made too.

[Jeepster06]

Best option would be upper or lower front adjustable arms. I have personally never used the cam bolts, so I can't give you any feedback on those. I have used Currie and Poly Performance on mine and I prefer the Poly. They allow you to install them and adjust the length without removing one end adjusting the length. They are very well made too.

I do agree the best option is adjustable control arms. I plan on upgrading my front uppers to adjustable and I might just take your advice on the Poly performance.

[WestKySahara]

Never buy the "entry level" kits because you'll just be back buying the rest later.:)

[jgarner74]

I do agree the best option is adjustable control arms. I plan on upgrading my front uppers to adjustable and I might just take your advice on the Poly performance.


I would highly recommend them to anyone. I run their control arms, high steer kit, drag link flip kit and track bar braces and never had one issue.

[jgarner74]

Never buy the "entry level" kits because you'll just be back buying the rest later.:)


It is OK to buy the entry level kits, just be prepared to add a few more components to make it a complete kit.

For instance my springs/shock are OME, bumpstops Tereflex and home made with hockey puck, Currie adjustable sway bar links, Poly Arms and steering, sometimes the peiced together lifts can give you what you want without dropping a boat load of cash all at once.