Wannabe Jeep Wranger owner!!!!!!!

[Keithd2606]

I have to be honest i dont know much about the jeep wrangler, i rode in several and read all the pro vs. cons info sites on the wrangler, and i defently getting one, even selling my 89 mustang gt convertable to get one. Basically id like to have your guys opinion on what too look for when buying one. I love off roading but this also will be my all time driver so i dont want to get too extreme with the off road aspect of the wrangler. I have decided I like them with 33in tires and 3-4 in lift. Im not too sure if maybe i should look for one with this already added, b/c the tires and lift would be about the most expensive add-on id want or should i buy stock and go from there? I defently want the six cylinder over the 4, so what kind of mpg would i be looking at with 33s? Also what is the towing compacity with them? Typically how many miles can you expect to get out of them?, i know everything is in how you treat it, so assuming best case. any other factors i should consider b4 making my choice? also im wanting a newer one 93-up. any help would be great, thanks Keith

[Fred]

Best for you would be a '96 or better, that is when the TJ started, basicly the 4L and a coil spring suspension. I would recommend finding one lifted already to where you want. As for Towing, there is another thread recently that hits it up hard, but you have around 2000lb max, milage for fuel on TJs Vary but with 33's you'd be in the 15mpg neighborhood, overall milage you said it depends on you, my 6cy cherokee had over 100k miles and engine was sold out of it, my current TJ does not even have 50k yet, I would put a 4L 6cy at around 150-175k miles. Good luck and I hope you find what you want.

[Tomster]

Keith:

Welcome, my fellow Kentuckian. Where is Midway? I'm in Greenville, over on the western side of the state.

As Fred recommended, be sure to get a TJ. The TJ's have coil springs all the way around, and they have KILLER flex even stock. Fred was off by a year, though. The TJ's started with the 97 model year.

There really was no 1996 Wrangler. They produced the last of the YJs as 95 models and the first of the TJs as 97 models.

The YJs had leaf springs all the way around. They can be modified to be extremely capable trail rigs, but stock to stock comparison favors the TJ by a LOT.

I would advise buying a stock Jeep and adding the things that YOU want for mods.

Please post in the "introductions" forum and tell us a little about yourself.

Glad you have joined us, and please post any and all questions you may have. We will be happy to help you in your decisions about a Jeep. Remember, though, a lot of this will just be personal opinions, and we certainly do not all share the same opinions.

Oh, the gas mileage thing. You must already know that Wranglers don't get very good mileage. Depending on how much weight has been added by armor, bumpers, and winch, and depending on the size (weight) of the tires, a Jeep can get as low as 12 MPG or as high as 18 MPG. Obviously, there will be individual Jeeps that have mileage above or below that range, but that range should include probably 95% of all Wranglers. The bigger the tires and the more weight added to the Jeep, the lower the mileage will be. Gearing, of course is a biggie, and driving style/driving conditions make a big difference.

Tom

[Paul E]

Buying a lifted jeep brings certain issues with it.

It may have been wheeled, it may not have been. If it has been, it could have been some hard wheeling, so you have to look it over VERY well and look for obvious signs of damage or wear. A GOOD independent mechanic that you can trust and that knows suspensions/4x4's would be a GREAT help here. Make sure any lifted jeep you look at and consider has the lift kit done properly, not halfa**, like some will do it. I prefer a spring/shock lift vs the budget boost (spacers on the springs). Body lifts are okay, but should ideally be 1" or less, to avoid potential safety issues.

As for a daily driver status, 3-4" and 33's is really pushing it for daily driving. It can be done, but realize that your driving style will have to change from your current Mustang ride. I have a 97 TJ and I'm putting only 2.5" and 31's or 32's max on it. I drive it around town a lot (get lots of envious stares on beautiful days too!) and can't imagine going much higher. But that is just me.

If you are wanting decent mileage, a Wrangler isn't for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Tom's estimates are probably pretty good.

Other things to look for:
Axles - stronger ones are Dana 44 in the rear. All front axles are Dana 30's except in the Rubicon's which have 44's front/rear and also come factory with selectable lockers.

Hard top vs soft top vs both.
Hard top is great in winter, soft top any other time. I only have a soft top and am pleased with it. Older tops are single-ply. Newer ones are made with a mulit-layer design called sailcloth which is quieter and provides a bit more sound insulation.

Full doors vs half doors. Again, personal choice here. Most hard tops come with full doors, but soft tops can come with either. I have half doors and love the low sill on them for offroading. Both types can be removed.

[Don]

Hello Keith,, nice to see another Jeeper in my part of the World. I live in Louisville, Kentucky. My Sister went to Midway College, but I suspect that was long before your time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif IF you are very careful, you can find a lifted Jeep that isn't over priced, or like Paul said, some half A@@ done job. Body lifts are a dime a dozen and are worth about as much IMHO. Recently, I saw a real nice Wrangler with quality lift at a fair price on one of the Jeep Forums that I subscribe to. However, the Jeep was in NJ., so the question becomes how far do you want to travel to get a Jeep. I have seen some nice Jeeps on Ebay, and I have seen Jeeps that you would have to pay me to take. I purchased my TJ off Ebay, so all I am saying is know what you are looking at and for before placing a bid. My Jeep is a 1998 TJ "Sport" (4.0L) with the 3.5 Rubicon Express Super Flex lift (actual lift is a hair over 4 inches) and 33x12:50 tires. In MHO, this is at the peak for a DD, which mine is. You stated that you like to wheel, I assume that you have friends that Wheel on a regular basis at Slade, Haspin acres, and Livingston? How hard core are these guys/gals and how much modification will you need to keep up with them? Do you get a regular opportunity to Co-pilot with one of them and see different modifications in action? The other thing that I want to to be aware of is that a totally stock Jeep will go places that will blow your mind. I wheeled my TJ stock for almost a year before I did any mods to it. If you are in Louisville, and you want to checkout the 3.5 lift and 33 tires up close and personal, just give me a yell.

Again, welcome to itsajeep.org

[Dave Taylor]

To add further influence to what Paul wrote above;

if you plan to offroad it, ever in its future, you really need to get the larger Dana 44 optional axles

This is something that doesn't cost much differently on the front-end when buying a used one; but could cost you thousands of dollars down the road in axle component and rear-end upgrades if you ever get the gut to do alot of off-roading....plus with your desire to start with 33s, you should have at least a rear Dana 44 anyway.

I drive with 33s as a daily driver; and it is fine...no big deal; but it will never be a mustang; and you just have to get used to it not being fast on the road.

Don't buy any Jeep with the standard small Dana 35 rear axle....if you plan to offroad it. It will be your biggest regret; and it will cause problems with other mods you might want to do; but then be restricted from doing.

[mullins87]

Welcome to the site Keith. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif Is this the same Midway that is south of Murray? If it is, great. If it isn't, then where?

Check the YJ in my sig. It's fine for what I do with it, wheeling and joy riding. But there is no way it would be my DD for very long. On it's best day it might get 15mpg. And the leaf spring suspension, while built tough enough to tackle almost anything imaginable, rides like it. Don't get me wrong. I love my YJ and wouldn't trade it for anything else. But get a '97 or newer model with the 4.0L. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

Oh, btw, if you are wanting decent gas mileage, especially now that gas is well over $2/gallon, forget the Wrangler. If you really want a Jeep, but want better mileage, you might consider a Cherokee(XJ). You can find a late model for well under $10k. I routinely get 20-21mpg out of mine.

[kevin]

keith

I would also recomend getting a TJ (97-current wrangler). The coils even on a stock wrangler flex exteemly well. BUt as far as the axles go.. i would recomend dana 44's in the rear (front and rear would be best). But stay away from 3.07 gears like the plaige. If i knew anything about jeeps when i bought my 2003 wrangler (tj) x i would have gotten difforent gears.

When you are out looking at the jeep like everyone said make sure to look at it very well. I flipped mine going 45mph and it still looks brand new. Untill you look under my jeep and see a bent frame and bent body mounts. also i would recomend the 5 speed manual or 6 speed manual. I have hear that the 4 speed auto dosent really alow the 4.o motor to get power to the ground as effitently as the manual. For example it might take you motor going to 1500 - 2000 rpms for the torque converter to fully engage when with the manual you can easily get it into gear around 500rphs.


my advice about buying a jeep with a lift on it is to buy a stock jeep first. I have wheeled my jeep stock for over a year now and with good driving skills you can keep up with the lifted jeeps better than you would expect. Plus starting with a stock jeep you can find out what you need to get and what you don;t need. plus one of my ideas that i came up with is wheel it untill it gets broken then up grade it. Its been working for me so far.,,lol

good luck with getting a jeep your going to love it.!!

kbo /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif

[Don]

I have a couple comments.

1) It doesn't appear that Keith is even participating in this discussion.

2) Everyone is telling Keith to stay away from the D35 and 3.07 gears, but yet they recommend that he find a Stock TJ. Unless he is looking at Rubi's, it is going to be very hard, if not close to impossible to find a pre-owned "Stock" TJ with a D44. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Marlon_JBT]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a couple comments.

1) It doesn't appear that Keith is even participating in this discussion.

2) Everyone is telling Keith to stay away from the D35 and 3.07 gears, but yet they recommend that he find a Stock TJ. Unless he is looking at Rubi's, it is going to be very hard, if not close to impossible to find a pre-owned "Stock" TJ with a D44. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Patience, Don! Sometimes it takes a while for people to come back. If he posted a topic, he's sure to come back, whether he replies or not.

Other than that, I agree with everything you said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

[gmbtj]

If he gets a Sahara model, many of them have the Dana 44 model in the rear (and all dana 44's, except for the rubicon, have the 3.73 gears, which would be more usable on the street with 33's than the 3.07 gearing).

Keith, a way for you to check which rear axle you get, if it is a big round oval it is a dana 35. If it is kinda octagonal, then it is the better, more beefy Dana 44. Also, there will be a tag on the left side of the differential. Clean it off to see what gears you have. If it says 3 07, then you have 3.07 gears, if it says 373, then you have 3.73 gears, and so on.

I have a 4 cyl, and they came stock with 4.10 gearing, which is hepful on the trail. Even though it is lower gearing and will help you pull the bigger tires, the 4 cyl just doesnt like to put up with the bigger tires and they espaecially hate the highway. If I regear to 4.88, then I could put 33's on and have a more stock feel back as far as power goes.

[Fred]

I REALLY agree with don, It is difficult to find a Wrangler with a 44 becasue they are ordered that way, and unless it is a Rubi or it was a custom swap (not stock) it is impossible to find a 44 front. For the way he was talking about wheeling a D35 would hold up. I wheel mine pretty hard and whelled my XJ VERY HARD, and never broke the 35. I broke the D30 R&P, but never broke the 35. In Fact I have only heard of 1 or 2 breaks in TB of a 35! So for light to moderate wheeling a 35 id fine! As for the 3.07's, I HATE MINE! To get a stock TJ most have 3.07's, most XJ's have 3.55, but TJ's can be found with 3.73's. I say find the TJ you want and gear it later!

[Don]

Marlon, LOL!! Me have Patience?? I want to cook a 2 minute egg in 60 seconds.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hee.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hee.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hee.gif

[Tomster]

TJ's with Dana 44's in the rear are not as rare as hen's teeth, but they could be a little difficult to find. Not sure what percentage of TJs leave the factory with D35's.

If a Jeep has the canyon wheels and 30" GSA's, then there is a good chance it might have the Dana 44. There is (was) an option package called "AAS," which is (was) a SUPER good deal. For $850, you could get the Canyon wheels, gas shocks, 30" tires, AND THE DANA 44!!! I ordered that package on Thelma Jane.

It is easy to tell the difference between the 44 and the 35. The 44 is bigger on the left side than it is on the right. It sorta looks like a pear laid on its side, with the fat end to the left. A 35 is pumpkin shaped and is symmetrical on its vertical axis. Also, the 44 has a threaded metal fill plug, and the 35 has a rubber fill plug.

Tomster

[Keithd2606]

Sorry guys i only have internet access at my moms house, not at my house. As far as gas milage its not a big consern to me, the way i look at it is i doubt it will go much lower anytime soon, plus my stang gets about 15 anyway. Midway is between Lexington, Frankfort, and Georgetown.
Ive been advised about not getting one b/c of trany problems?? Whats the truth to that? As far as how much im looking to spend, about 8k tops. Im not too sure about buying one on ebay, unless it was one pretty close to home, im really not wanting to go out of state. What is your guys opinon about car auctions like KASP? I looked at one with 31's on it the other day, its ok looking but im still pretty sure about wanting 33's. Yes i do have friends that 4wheel down in livingston, i have gone several times with them and they mostly stick to basic trails, creeks, and mud, which is what i like myself. How much should i expect to pay for a good lift job? I have basic mechanic skills and watch trucks every weekend, but im not too sure how i feel about putting my own lift on. As far as getting a stock on, that wouldnt be bad since i can stock newer ones in my price range, where as if i get one with mods ill have to get an older one 95 and down.
Thanks for the help guys
Keith

[Marlon_JBT]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys i only have internet access at my moms house, not at my house. As far as gas milage its not a big consern to me, the way i look at it is i doubt it will go much lower anytime soon, plus my stang gets about 15 anyway. Midway is between Lexington, Frankfort, and Georgetown.
Ive been advised about not getting one b/c of trany problems?? Whats the truth to that? As far as how much im looking to spend, about 8k tops. Im not too sure about buying one on ebay, unless it was one pretty close to home, im really not wanting to go out of state. What is your guys opinon about car auctions like KASP? I looked at one with 31's on it the other day, its ok looking but im still pretty sure about wanting 33's. Yes i do have friends that 4wheel down in livingston, i have gone several times with them and they mostly stick to basic trails, creeks, and mud, which is what i like myself. How much should i expect to pay for a good lift job? I have basic mechanic skills and watch trucks every weekend, but im not too sure how i feel about putting my own lift on. As far as getting a stock on, that wouldnt be bad since i can stock newer ones in my price range, where as if i get one with mods ill have to get an older one 95 and down.
Thanks for the help guys
Keith

[/ QUOTE ]

The only tranny "problem" which I have personally seen, is the loss of 5th gear on the AX-5 manual transmission, found only on 4 bangers. It..will..just..stop..working. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The AX-15 manual seems to be pretty strong.

You say $8k? huh? Putting a lift on is fairly easy with the right tools. Some include instructions. If you can tighten nuts and bolts, and have a good set of sockets, a torque wrench, and some jackstands, you can probably do it yourself. I plan to later this year on my Liberty. For 33s, you're gonna need about 3" of lift, either 2" of suspension, 1" of body, or 3" of suspension. Keep in mind, if you go over about 2.5" of suspension lift, you're going to have driveline problems and vibrations, unless the correct parts are installed.

You're looking at about... a '97 or '98 TJ Sport 4.0L with average miles, as far as purchase.

15MPG with your Mustang??? Is that normal? I don't know much about them. Post some pics.

As far as the Dana 35 vs. Dana 44 rear axle... if you're going to stick with 33s, in mild "wheeling", and will NOT purchase a rear locker, you should be fine.

[Keithd2606]

Sorry no pics right now of it, not online anyway, ill try to get some posted next time im down here. I guess its normal, it is a 302 v8. Im hearing these horror stories about the tranny and other things about jeeps from my dad and his buddies, who all are aginest me getting a jeep, i think my dad has major influence on them. He doesnt like the idea of taking anything off road, hes an old fart.

[Marlon_JBT]

Tell him the automatic transmission in the '97 and '98 Wranglers is a descendant of the TorqueFlite. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

As for the 4 speeds in the Grand Cherokee (which he may be talking about)... that's from using the WRONG FLUID!!! Either that or solenoid packs. RARELY does the transmission itself break.

The 4 speed in the Cherokee is darn near indestructible.

I don't know where he's hearing this...

[Tomster]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry no pics right now of it, not online anyway, ill try to get some posted next time im down here. I guess its normal, it is a 302 v8. Im hearing these horror stories about the tranny and other things about jeeps from my dad and his buddies, who all are aginest me getting a jeep, i think my dad has major influence on them. He doesnt like the idea of taking anything off road, hes an old fart .

[/ QUOTE ]

OLD FART????!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


This OLD FART loves Jeeps, so being an Old Fart doesn't automatically make you anti-Jeep!

Just messin' with ya, Keith, but you really DO need to know that some of us "Old Farts" love Jeeps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

Tomster

[mikea]

The dana 44 is a tough one to find. Your best bet would be to find a used sahara as they came with the dana 44. It was optional on other models. There are used Rubicons available now as well and most have never been off road. Depending on your budget my first choice would be a rubicon the the sahara or any other TJ with a dana 44 rear.

As far as the lift is concerened I would not buy a lifted jeep unless you have a good amount of experience offroading. Wheel a stock jeep, learn what it can and can't do. Learn your jeep and make modifications from there. You'll be happier in the long run.

[Don]

I thought the Sahara was nothing but a trip package.... nothing mechanically different than a Sport, just a change in trim items. Are you sure about the D44 as standard equipment in a Sahara?

[Tomster]

Mikea:

Man, I am ALMOST certain that you are wrong about a Sahara having the Dana 44 standard. Think it is an option on them, just like it is on a Sport.

Tomster

[Don]

I just confirmed with a friend, his 2000 TJ Sahara has the Dana-35

[gmbtj]

Yes it was just an option, but so many came with the 30 inch tire package that alot had the dana 44.

[Suzjeep]

The Sports all have D44's I believe. Make sure you get under there and check out the markings on the punkin cause peeps LIE!! I did my research before buying and got under there and checked everything out. The guy tried to getme to get a D35 and when I crawled under there and said, "Nope! I TOLD you I wanted the D44." he just kinda stood there stunned that I actually knew enough to check.

[Marlon_JBT]

The only model of Wrangler that has a D44 rear standard is the Rubicon, and (Some, if not all) Rocky Mountain Editions.

Period.

[gmbtj]

Correct-a-mundo. Now lets stop confusing the Heck outta him.

[Suzjeep]

[ QUOTE ]
The only model of Wrangler that has a D44 rear standard is the Rubicon, and (Some, if not all) Rocky Mountain Editions.

Period.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then wear clothes that you can get under there and check it out!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hee.gif Also, while you're under there, you can check for big time offroad damage which may signal that you aren't interested in that Jeep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MrCreosote]

This isn't in his price range, nor have I seen any used yet...but the Unlimiteds come with a rear D44 standard.

At least mine did, and it's not a Rubicon.

[Hipee]

Well, everyone pretty much said it all here. You'll want a late 90's TJ Wrangler, perferably with the Dana44, and the 4.0L straight 6. I have the Dana35 in my '03 X and the 4.0L and I bang on it pretty hard and it's still in one peice. Everyone says such bad things about the D35...but it ain't that bad. It's a good rear end if you work within it's boundaries.

Good luck on your purchase and post some pics of which every Jeep you buy.

[Keithd2606]

hey guys, I just bought my jeep today. I got at 95 sahara, sort of a light tan color. its got 101k, still runs great, and older guy had it and traded it in when it hit 100k and it was said to be never off road, its in very good condition. It has 23.5's right now, after driving several I belive I only wanna go 32's with a small lift maybe at the end of the summer, I got both a hard and soft top. I got some pics which ill post when I get them back. I gave 7850 for it, which when looking around seems to be a good deal?? I took it up some hills and such to test out the 4x4, everything works great. Has anyone put rynolining in there floorboads?? Im wondering about the cost, also im thinking about geting it on all my black accessories, like the side mirrors and bumper guards. Not too sure how it would look. Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks
Keith

[Don]

Keith.... Congratulations on the Jeep. I think you will like the Sahara. Rhino lining the interior is a common deal. However, puting it on exterior parts propably won't make you happy as the rhino lining on exterior is a real PITA to keep clean. Just my $0.02 worth.

[Hipee]

Congrats on your new toy. Have you decided what lift you're going to install? It's a YJ and you said you wanted to run 32s, so you're gonna need atleast a uh, 3" lift I believe. Or you could do a combo lift (i.e. 2" suspension, 1" body).

After all my research on what's necessary to lift a jeep properly, I've decided to go with a smaller lift than originally planned. Thinking I'll stick with running 31s.

Can't wait to see the pics man.

[Fred]

I would even RECCOMMEND a 1" Body Lift as some aftermarket skids, and some other mods may require it.