Think we might have a problem...

[Tomster]

It seems to me that this site has to a very large extent become a "Turkey Bay Jeep Club" website. That's fine for those of us who get together and wheel all the time at Turkey Bay, but those posts and those conversations in Chat are not exactly what other folks come here for.

It seems that all the growth we get in terms of ACTIVE members are folks who go to Turkey Bay. We see people join and then never hear from them again. Could part of the reason for that be that after checking out the place, they decide that this is a Turkey Bay site????

I don't want to piss anyone off, and I'm not suggesting that we should stop our posting about Turkey Bay, but I would like to hear opinions on how we can make this site interesting and fun for folks who cannot make it to Turkey Bay.

Please, just be open minded and pretend you were coming to this site for the first time. Pretend that you live a thousand miles from Turkey Bay and have no plans to ever go there. What would make you want to stay here and be an active member?

It's easy to point out a problem, but fixing it can be a whole different story. Does anyone agree that we have a problem, and do you have any suggestions on how to fix it?

I don't want this site to be just a Turkey Bay website. That was not Gill's intention when he created this site. Let's never forget, this place belongs to Gilly.

Tom

[Don]

Tom: We have several West Coasters subscribed. Maybe they will chime in on this subject.

[Tomster]

Yeah, and we have Matt and Just Jeepin in the NE, and Marlon in Detroit. ItsaJeep should be fun for everyone.

I don't know the answer. I don't want us to quit posting about our fun at Turkey Bay. But we have to realize that others are not interested in that stuff. Maybe we need a whole separate section for TB stuff, like we split off the trail ride section????

If we do that, then I hope we all will still visit and post in the main section. I don't want us Turkey Bay people to become an entirely separate group.

IDEAS! We need ideas! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tomster

[Don]

Just keep in mind that 80 to 90% of people who join a group, Internet, church, or whatever, are going to do nothing, and will not be active no matter what you do. Let the out of staters tell you what, if any the problems are.
Look at how active some of these guys are.. why? Let them speak, then we can see if there are any problems that need correcting. This is my $0.02 worth, your mileage may vary. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mawardjr]

Majority of the people on here seem to be from an area that is close to Turkey Bay, so I don't think we should be scared of talking about it. It gives others who are interested in visiting Turkey Bay some insight on what to expect and a place to find local's who can possibly help guide them if they so choose.

Other sites that I belong to seem to have main groups that frequent local spots but that doesn't deter me from using that site. I go to them primarily for the technical information and if this site can keep up in that area, then all will benefit from it.

I think this site's main benefit is that it does provide information on this area's wheeling spots. We've got info on Turkey Bay, Windrock, Tellico, Wheelin' in the Country, 143 Off-Road, Pegram ect. That is what makes it unique and a benefit to those who are not local and searching for info on those areas.

[Matt]

The question is really, what is active? Is it posting day after day, is it filling the photo gallery ? is it going to chat? I've been around here for about a year, and by far have posted very little, mainly because I might not have much to say about what ever is being discussed.The attiude of "let the out of staters complain, its not our problem" . This site has become filled with folks from all over the country, and yes many people join things,and never post a thing. on the other hand, Why is there an "official time" for chat? I dont think this necessary, actually because of the different time zones, it just not right. The reality of it is that the chat is active for about 2 hrs, and it goes dead.Then there are the people that only hang if Tom is on. If he's not they disappear, without a word. I dont think thats very friendly at all.If the powers to be want to make this site the Kentucky wheeling association, with the focal point being Turkey bay thats fine.If this site is for all who enjoy off-roading, then beleive "we" have a problem. Dont let is fester, its just going to get worse, then of course you'll have the site to yourselves

[Paul E]

As one who was a west coaster for a long time before moving to Alabama, I think I can shed some light.

When I first came to itsajeep from Edmunds, I was looking for technical information about how to work on and upgrade my jeep. I think that is why a lot of people check this place out - looking for help.

A lot of the posts lately have been about TB and mods people have done, and a lot less about technical.

For example, I recently posted about installing my Jeeperman bumper but didn't provide any pics or details on how I did it. Many on here are experienced with working on their Jeep and even more could benefit from the experience and knowledge some of us have.

Here's an idea. We have a wide variety of lifts on the rigs here. It would be interesting to use Turkey Bay as a testing ground to test (with measurements maybe) what kind of flex and situations each type of lift can handle. That would give real world examples and allow talking about Turkey Bay, but in a context that will provide benefit to others not in the area.

I am going to go back and try to get more detail shots of my installs, even if I have to take some stuff apart and 'redo' it.

This will benefit me (to make sure I did it right!), and allow me to document what I did, so others can learn. The lifts Micah and GMBTJ will be doing should be documented and photographed. I've seen lots of writeups on lifts, but not many have good photos to go with it.

We need to offer something more than what JF and JU offer. Granted, they are bigger and have a wider base, but still... we can offer something they can't - courtesy.

I do agree with Mike that this site REALLY promotes Turkey Bay. Do we want to be a TB and offroading experience website or a site that can be a resource for learning Jeepers that can come in, be treated respectfully, get answers, and have fun? I'd like it to be both.

[Tomster]

[ QUOTE ]
The question is really, what is active? Is it posting day after day, is it filling the photo gallery ? is it going to chat? I've been around here for about a year, and by far have posted very little, mainly because I might not have much to say about what ever is being discussed.The attiude of "let the out of staters complain, its not our problem" . This site has become filled with folks from all over the country, and yes many people join things,and never post a thing. on the other hand, Why is there an "official time" for chat? I dont think this necessary, actually because of the different time zones, it just not right. The reality of it is that the chat is active for about 2 hrs, and it goes dead.Then there are the people that only hang if Tom is on. If he's not they disappear, without a word. I dont think thats very friendly at all.If the powers to be want to make this site the Kentucky wheeling association, with the focal point being Turkey bay thats fine.If this site is for all who enjoy off-roading, then beleive "we" have a problem. Dont let is fester, its just going to get worse, then of course you'll have the site to yourselves

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt:

First off, the "official time for chat" is just a suggested time, so people will know when they have the best chance to find someone in the chat room. The time of 8PM CST was suggested as a time that is not too early for the west coasters and not too late for the east coasters. It is only 6 PM out west when it is 8 PM Central Time. That's kind of early for them. If we make it 9 PM Central Time, that's better for the west coast folks, but look how late that makes it for you guys on Eastern Time. The chat room is open 24/7, so people can chat whenever they want to. We just tried to pick a time that would fit most people's schedule the best.

As for people leaving chat when they don't find me there, I will not flatter myself by believing that the fact that I am not there is why they don't stay. Geez, Matt, what makes you think that is what is happening??? It happens when I am in there too. People log in and right back out. It has nothing to do with whether I am there or not.

And, no, I don't want this just to be a Turkey Bay website. I recognized that this is what we were becoming here, and I am asking for ideas on how we can avoid that. That was the idea of this thread.

I want the place to be what Gill intended it to be.... a place for all Jeepers to enjoy. How can we make sure it is?

Tom

[jdwerner]

I don't want to be a sour puss, but I was actually referred to this site because I posted something about Turkey Bay in another forum where I am a member. Before that I had never been on this website. The guy who referred me is a member of both sites. Now that that is out of the way, the main reason I enjoy being a member on Jeep forums is to be able to ask other Jeepers questions that I have. This is one forum where I feel comfortable enough to ask questions that might seem studid. If I asked certain questions on other forums, members wouldn't respond because it had been asked too many times or bascially make you feel like a jackass. There are a lot of great people on this website, which makes it stand apart in my mind. Maybe we can try and tone down the TB talk, I'm not sure if that is the answer or not, but I, for one, do talk about it a lot on here.

Another thing that attracted me to another forum is all of the technical write-ups it has. The write-ups are seperate from the forums, but anytime you post something in the forums, the man who did the write-ups is almost guaranteed to see your post and give you a knowledgeable response. Mabye this is an area we could try and work on. Just my $.02.

[Paul E]

JD, I agree. Technical information is probably the BIGGEST reason people look to join Jeep sites. I know that is why I joined JF and JU. Of those two, I prefer JF because you get a lot less criticism, though it can and does happen.

Here the feeling is more like a family, which is good. But we don't want to exclude.

But we need to offer more than a warm and fuzzy place for people to come and hang out here too. A writeup section may be a good section to have, in addition to the mods.

[Don]

[ QUOTE ]
The question is really, what is active? Is it posting day after day, is it filling the photo gallery ? is it going to chat? I've been around here for about a year, and by far have posted very little, mainly because I might not have much to say about what ever is being discussed.The attiude of "let the out of staters complain, its not our problem" . This site has become filled with folks from all over the country, and yes many people join things,and never post a thing. on the other hand, Why is there an "official time" for chat? I dont think this necessary, actually because of the different time zones, it just not right. The reality of it is that the chat is active for about 2 hrs, and it goes dead.Then there are the people that only hang if Tom is on. If he's not they disappear, without a word. I dont think thats very friendly at all.If the powers to be want to make this site the Kentucky wheeling association, with the focal point being Turkey bay thats fine.If this site is for all who enjoy off-roading, then beleive "we" have a problem. Dont let is fester, its just going to get worse, then of course you'll have the site to yourselves

[/ QUOTE ]

Matt: I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say about the out of Staters, so I will try to do a better job of typing. :-) I by no means meant let them complain... we don't care. What I meant was that a Local person's view of the list may not be the view that you and some of the other out of towners have. Therefore, it becomes important for us to see things thru your eyes. We may or may not agree with your opinion, but we will at least see where you are coming from, as well as what, if anything YOU think is wrong. My other comment was really more of a question stated very poorly :-) Why are some out of staters, like you, PaulE, Marlon, Hipee, etc., etc,. (the list really is quite long when you think about it) active on the list, while other out of Staters register then are never heard from again? My comment had nothing to do with the number of post that an individual has or hasn't made, but rather with how often they visit the site to do whatever. If an individual does nothing but visits the chat section, in MHO, they are active because they keep coming back to itsajeep.org on a regular, or semi regular basis. The people who registered and have never returned are not active. I hope that I did a better job of stating my views this time.

[Dennis]

I'm in California and I never heard of Turkey Bay before joining ItsaJeep. I still don't know exactly where it is. So I'm one of those out-of-the-area types that might be turned off by all the local chatter.

Although I admit to feeling a bit excluded, I don't really mind. I just skip through that stuff if I can.

The reason I'm a member is that ItsaJeep is such a nice place to go for information and support. We've all visited other formus and seen the kind of thing that goes on. Out on the trail, the Jeepers I meet are wonderful people. Where do all the jerks come from that hang out it in those other forums?

I'd like ItsaJeep to be broader, but I sure don't want it to turn into JeepForums. The best way I can think of is to recruit those nice folks I meet on the trail and tell them this is the place for them.

[mawardjr]

So what brought this on Tom?

[yamamama]

Paul
I am new to to ItsaJeep and new to wheelin'.. I am finding this site to be "warm and fuzzy" right now as I learn from those of you that have the experience..So for right now I am "hanging out" while I learn.. (Have to start some place) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Tomster]

Mike:

What made me start this thread is that some folks in the chat room seemed to be a little put out with all the Turkey Bay talk. At first I thought they were being overly critical, but after some thought, I can see that people who aren't part of the Turkey Bay gang might prefer other topics of discussion. That led me to think about the forums as well. It seems like Turkey Bay comes up in so many threads. We really ought to stick to the topic of a thread, I guess. That would help keep Turkey Bay discussions in the Turkey Bay Trail Ride forum.

I just want us all to have a good time in here, whether we are part of the Turkey Bay gang or not. I am certainly not suggesting that we should change anything right now. I just want to hear people's ideas about how we can keep from being perceived as a Turkey Bay website.

I'm glad we have members from one coast to the other. I sure don't see this place as just a home for us Turkey Bay folks. I hope there will always be something for everyone here.

Tom

[Paul E]

Yama, I understand that. I would just like the technical assistance be a bit more 'formalized' w/o being formalized. I think a section on writeups with photos and such would be a great tool to making this an educational site as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[yamamama]

Paul I definitely agree with what you are saying..I found it very interesting just a few days ago with photos of all of the mods...that's how I am learning..

[Matt]

Tom it does happen that when you're not around, and when you leave shortly there after guys take off.Face it, unknowingly you have become the kingpin, and thats fine.I for one am good with that. If I can help someone workout a mechanical problem that I'm familiar with I do.As far as driving technic, its very difficult to discuss that because its something you just have to be there, to expain, and most people are very touchy about that area. As far as the chat is concerned, it is a very small window of opportunity, and its a little on the early side for the westcoast (6pm)Is it possible to mass pm, all members that it would be nice to stop in chat, and say hello? Just a thought. If the other room could be kept as a "tech" session, it sure would make things easier to explain, rather than trying to do it between two or three concurrent conversations, as I did with Bill, and his U-joints.I'm a bit lazy,is it possible to combine mods, maintainence, and write-ups into on area. Maybe call it tech time? It all revolves around getting the vehicle to behave, and there would be no guessing as to where the thread goes.If there are pix, let them stay with the thread. I think it would be a much quicker reference that way. Anyway growth is something we have to deal with (like kids) and it looks like the site is begining to evolve.So lets help it along without predijous. Take care

[Tomster]

Yeah, Matt, I know what you mean about chatting and trying to carry on a conversation with so many other conversations going on. Maybe not everyone knows it, but a new chat room can be started at any time, and people can switch back and forth. We ought to take advantage of that feature, maybe.

If someone has a technical question and someone else is trying to help, then maybe they should go to another room, then they can come back when they are through.

Let's just all work together to make the whole site enjoyable for everyone.

Everyone, please keep the constructive criticism coming.

Tom

[Paul E]

What would be cool is if when you join the website, you get a welcome message to your registered email that talks of the features of the web site, including the chat.

Matt, I personally thank you for your assistance with the work I did this weekend. I know it was just routine maintenance, but it was new to me. Information like even how to do general maintenance would be a great asset for this site. Most site talk about mods - most don't talk about maintenance.

I agree with Matt's idea about a Tech Time.. broken down kinda like this:

Mod Write-ups
- Engine
- Suspension
- Drivetrain
- Body
- Tires and Wheels
- Interior
- Electronics

Maintenance Items
- Engine
- Suspension
- Drivetrain
- Body
- Interior

General Information and Questions:
- Suspension
- Tires and wheels
- Etc

This format kinda follows how the JF site works. Jeep specific questions can be in the appropriate jeep forum, but we would be able to refer users to these areas for specifics on how to.

Whadya think?

[jwrubi]

I say come or go. They can check it out and if they like it stay. I am in Colorado. I have wheeled with some of you at TB. This site has great info in it. If they are lazy to dig and stick around oh well. Oh by the way I am away from teh country right now and will be stopping in everyone once in awhile. Take care people. Jason

[Paul E]

Jason, best of luck wherever you are. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mikea]

I really don't see a problem unless Gill is un-happy with the site. I come here not for technicle advice or writeups, I go to rubiconownersforum(ROF) for that(and the humor section). I come here because this is family. I rarely chat at ROF because I just don't feel comefy there. This place is home. I really like the people that hang out here. I enjoy chat and like giveing some of you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif a hard time.

... and yes, this has become a place with a lot of info on Turkey Bay. This is because most of the frequent posters mostly wheel at Turkey Bay. That will probably never change. Lets face it. Most jeepers who are in "official" regional clubs hag out on their own sites and have their own chat rooms. It would be a mistake to make this the "official" Turkey Bay site. If anyone tries to change the direction of any site it usually just quietly dies. Everything evolves as does this site, it will slowley morph(<- really cool big word /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) itself into what its going to be. People will come and people will go but the core people will hang around.

Thats my opinnion so everyone needs to adjust their opinnions to match mine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brows.gif

[Rit]

It doesn't bother me, I just wish I could go./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've been away a little just because after a little health set back 2-1/2 years ago, I'm feeling more like skiing again (every weekend). Also started with weight training again, speed skating (laps) at noon and whenever the snow clears, ride my bike. I'm sure when the weather improves, I'll be fooling with the Willys. Nothing with the site.......just started doing stuff again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

[Paul E]

This is a family for me too. Mike nailed that. I would like there to be a section specifically for writeups used more. Y'all have done some great stuff and I could REALLY learn more from that, and I'm sure there are others out there like me who would too. That is really the only 'change' I'd like to see.

[Wraith]

I might as well be an out of stater, as I am on the other side of the state from TB. I don't really care how much its talked about. Might want to give it its own forum just to keep the talk of TB in one place, but aside from that I have no real opinion.

I come here for mechanical assistance from people who have done and tried different things. I like the chat line for when I want a quick answer to a question, (like the other night with my lift).

Personaly I would like to here more about trail riding out west, and up in the north east. TB may be the cat's meow to WKY people, but im sure its all stuff I have seen on trails in EKY, so nothing terribly new. I like to learn about stuff out in deserts, and up in the big mountain ranges in colorado, montana, and up in the new england states.

As far as Im concerned this is a jeep forum for people who own a jeeps, and like 4 wheeling. Ill continue to treat it as such until someone tells me to stop.

ps: I wouldnt mind seeing the entrance page revisit development with perhaps some more images, and such. Just seems sort of cold and bland for a website devoted to something as exhilirating and earthy as Jeeping. Just my 2 cents worth. I used to work as a web developer for State government so if the admin ever wants any help, just let me know.

[papabear]

Well, I am from the west coast, Kinda Wyoming. I to Love JEEPS and found you site while voting for another site. I have made suggestions and was accually listend to. This is a friendly site and you guys are great. But most of the information is about TB and the title of the site reflect something else, its a Jeep? says you are open to anything conversation revolves around your area of the country, good if you live there, or are going to visit. My 2 cents worth. Papabear

[Tomster]

Papabear:

I would like to see discussions and pics about wheelin' from ALL parts of the country. It's not that we need LESS talk about Turkey Bay, it's that we need MORE talk about other places. I think each one of us wants this site to be for EVERYONE who loves Jeeps, no matter what part of the country they are from.

And, yes, we are a friendly bunch of people. WE ARE JEEPERS (not just Jeep owners)! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom

[Don]

While I am thinking of it, I am trying to get a trip to Coal Creek, TN arranged for second weekend in August. Details are still up in the air, but if anyone is interested, I'll post more information as it becomes available.

[NiteDog]

This is a great site with good people. I have come here to read and learn from you folks. This is one of the very few sites I've felt comfortable enough to ask questions, or volunteer info I have figured out. Turkey Bay is cool, and I like to read about it, and you better believe If I can get down that way I'd like to go wheelin' there. The main thing I like about this about this site is how everbody tries to to get along. I have not seen any nasty flamming here like on other sites, but I have seen posts where people honestly care about the other guy. You folks always made me feel like I am at home here.

Thanks, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

I may not know you face to face, but I would ride with any of you guys and gals any time.

mike

[Don]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a great site with good people. I have come here to read and learn from you folks. This is one of the very few sites I've felt comfortable enough to ask questions, or volunteer info I have figured out. Turkey Bay is cool, and I like to read about it, and you better believe If I can get down that way I'd like to go wheelin' there. The main thing I like about this about this site is how everbody tries to to get along. I have not seen any nasty flamming here like on other sites, but I have seen posts where people honestly care about the other guy. You folks always made me feel like I am at home here.

Thanks, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif

I may not know you face to face, but I would ride with any of you guys and gals any time.

mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, I agree 210% with everything you said. If you or some of the other out of towners ever made it to TB, there would probably be a celebration in the streets. You know it is a shame that we can't magically zap everyone (all the itsajeep.org people) to the same place at the same time. Man would there be a party /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif BTW, that is one pretty YJ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tu.gif